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DeathDealerCros
Politics & Current Events Moderator
USA
38 Posts |
 Posted - October 30 2006 : 11:04:42 PM
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In California we have a proposition on the ballot (Prop. 85) to amend the CA Constitution so that a physician has to notify the parents of an unemancipated minor 48 hours before they perform an abortion on that minor.
What are your thoughts?
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - October 31 2006 : 12:09:55 AM
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Vote YES. It is just wrong for everyone to keep taking away the parents obligation and control they need in order to raise the children they brought into the world. Then blame the parents for everything when the child goes astray. Besides that, why on earth do they think it is morally, ethically or safe to allow some young girl to have an abortion then send her home to possibly bleed to death while the parents stand by confused at what is going on.
If they are going to let minors do things as drastic as have abortions without parental involvement, then they might as well allow them to smoke cigarettes, get tattoos, drink alcohol,go to strip joints, or whatever else that usually is controled with age limits due to the belief that they are too immature to handle these things.
Might as well take away the liabilities we parents are taxed with also. So next time some minor does something illegal we don't get burdened with the lawsuits. Those are my thoughts.
Just keep voting in Liberals and soon it just won't matter anyway. We'll be so loathed by the Islamofacists they'll be blowing us all up anyway. Especially since the wacko Liberals will be so focused on allowing babies to be killed, children with babies to be butchered, and parents silenced, that they won't see the enemy filling our country.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - October 31 2006 : 03:34:21 AM
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Jade, this is about the most rude, offensive, xenophobic, prejudiced thing you've ever written. I am a liberal in thought and viewpoint, and calling me a baby-butcher is WAY out of line.
I am deeply offended.
...dabbling all the way down... |
Edited by - Vainamoinen on October 31 2006 03:41:13 AM |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - October 31 2006 : 2:54:11 PM
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Sorry if you take it personal Vain. Just tell us your viewpoints on abortion and the obligation of the parents to protect their children. Having an abortion is bad enough, but to do it to a 13 year old girl without any parental involvement is SICK in IMMORAL.
As far as the baby-butcher comment, what else do you call unnecessarily chopping up the baby in the womb of a woman so they can more easily suck it out with a vacuum? Thats butchering.
If it makes you feel more comfortable, I'll restate it and say "MOST" liberals. That is more accurate since I'm sure their are some liberals that are against abortion. But if anyone is for the system of abortion on demand and as a birth control process, I consider butchers.
I also have some liberal beliefs, but not where it comes to children and families.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - October 31 2006 : 3:03:28 PM
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Jade, this place is called Middleground for a reason. We're all trying to come to some sort of understanding of each other- or at the very least, talk with each other in a polite and mutually respectful context. I don't say everything I think about conservatives, because some of it would be offensive or rude TO conservatives, and THIS is not the place for it. You are absolutely welcome to your opinion, but if it's defamatory, slanderous, or rude to an entire section of the population, you might want to think twice before slapping down on a public forum.
If you don't respect that, I hope at least you can abide by it.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - October 31 2006 : 3:18:46 PM
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OK, then as requested by DDC, what is your "polite" view on allowing 13 year old girls to have abortions without parental notification? Again to try to be more PC and not offend anyone, I'll use the term "people" instead of liberal. People that think not only abortion on demand is right and OK, but think that parental involvement is unnecessary are butchers and immoral and anti-family. Only "people" that fit that discription should take it to heart. That means Conservatives, independents, green party, etc too.
You can't reach a middleground by not letting others know from where you come from. So let us know where you stand and we'll try to meet at the middleground. State your position and why you think we should believe as you. Nothing hostile about debate or stating ones beliefs. Its only lying to oneself and others by ignoring all the facts and/or beliefs.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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Vissy
Starting Member
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - October 31 2006 : 9:04:44 PM
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I will admit that here in the UK we already have laws that protect the child who is having an abortion from their parents ever finding out. Sex education now days is literaly that and the culture is "if a child does wrong, blame it on the parents" all while restraining the parents from issuing proper discipline and advice.
I would actuly welcome such a law as the one that you guys are proposing, it would mean that the child has a full range of avialable information not only from docters and nurses, but from thier own parents who do have their best intrests at heart.
The only problem is, if they even tried to bring in such a law, all the bleedin' heart liberals would be screaming saying that it is an invasion of privacy and that only fully qualified medical personal are allowed to make such a descision along with the expecting mother, no matter that she is only 13 years old.
Do you know something, I often wonder just how many of these liberals actually have children, and I wonder how thier thoughts would change if they found out thier 16 year old daughter went and had an abortion behind their back and the first they knew about it was when she told them in a fit of tears.
Oh By the way, these are probably the same bleeding heart liberals that think that the gun that allied troops are using in Iraq and Afghanistan are causing more problems than they are solving, and they are probably the same people who would love to see the abololition of the 9pm "watershed" (where films which may contain scenes of an adult nature are not allowed to be shown before).
As you can guess, I am not a liberal, I tend to class them at the same level as say politicians, lawyers and "investigative journalists", i.e deserving to be used as shark bait, and only if we want to poisen the sharks (cant think of any other uses for them, can you?)
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Faith is something all men share with one another, they may have faith in differant things but they still all have faith. |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - October 31 2006 : 9:26:56 PM
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See Vain, the liberal mentality has caused way too many bad things to happen in more than just America. The extreme to that is the ultra conservative religious fanatic muslim countries. They go too far to the other side.
So if you are truly looking for middle ground, it isn't where women are treated like cattle in muslim countries and it isn't where women are above the moral laws of nature either. Animals that eat their young are just that, animals. Hopefully we have progressed further up the evolutionary food chain.
Since liberals so like to be now called progressives, lets see if they can really progress in a positive direction and accept that the child in a woman's womb is actually a separate human being and not an abscess. Because even if we can get 30% of them to love the life within, then add that to the 80% of conservatives that already do, then we can stop the insanity.(the percents aren't exact and fluctuate from one study to the next, but are very close to what the polls I've seen show) So as you can see, there are even conservatives that go for abortion on demand, just that they are in the minority in that group not the majority.
And for some reason, these same misguided folks also think parents are incapable of raising their children so they help the scared child do something that can scar them for life.(now tell me if that is good parenting)
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
Edited by - JADE on October 31 2006 9:28:54 PM |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 04:56:50 AM
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I'm shark-bait, apparently. Very broad-minded of you, Vissy. Any other insults you want to hurl while you're at it? I'm sure you can think of some other nasty words to call your fellow humans. You're a credit to your political party, you are. You call us 'bleeding heart' liberals. Maybe it's because someone STABBED US THERE.
Middle ground is about looking past your own party line and your own set of prejudices and schemas about morality and trying to talk to other people in a way that isn't patently designed to offend them. I disagree with your views, but if I said "You conservatives are responsible for so many of the terrible things that happen in the world," or "Conservatives aren't good for much apart from shark-bait", you'd be all over it, and we'd get nowhere.
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my "polite" bleeding-heart liberal shark-bait ways are just getting the best of me. Hey, I know! Let's all sit around and accuse each other's viewpoint of causing all the problems in the modern world! And if that doesn't work, we can always call each other names.
The shortest verse in the Bible is "Jesus wept."
The only thing wrong with it is the past tense.
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Edited by - Vainamoinen on November 01 2006 04:58:06 AM |
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Nisan
New Member
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 12:10:42 PM
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Okay, I'm not going to even tell you where I stand politically.
Vain, while I admit you have a valid point that 'the overt expression' of JADE's and Vissy's personal viewpoints are in a sense bashing, I do feel that you are taking their 'own' viewpoints' on a personal side as if it is an attack against you. You may be correct in stating if you made similar comments about conservatives it would not wash so well with either of them personally.
First, one thing I learned a long time ago, if someone has something to say about me - I need to examine it as in part it may be true - so I discard any lies and do what I can with the truth. My point, examine the remarks made if there is any 'truth' in them take a look and if there be any 'lies' discard them.
JADE did back off and state that not ALL but MOST he also opened the door to support your belief system. You guys do not have to agree but can agree to disagree without slamming the other.
JADE:
quote:
You can't reach a middleground by not letting others know from where you come from. So let us know where you stand and we'll try to meet at the middleground. State your position and why you think we should believe as you. Nothing hostile about debate or stating ones beliefs. Its only lying to oneself and others by ignoring all the facts and/or beliefs.
FTR - yes I've already expressed "my" feelings on the nature of the responses to certain parties. I'm not siding with them and bashing you, Vain.
Now, let me give you some clarification since you choose to quote Jesus. In the sense of a Christian, Jesus is here as He lives withine us. Now, to bring Him into the middle of this and to attack Jesus in unfair and you have no evidence to support your statement that "Jesus no longer weeps" I in fact know that He does as He does live within me so in that sense when I weep over unGodliness so does Jesus. Also, there is a proper context to that verse as this is to all verses. So unless you are will to quote the bible and Jesus in context the arguement does not hold.
Now, I'm going to ask the Christians to examine themselves (I think I need not say more).
Vain, I'm going to ask you to please state your points of view on why you believe what you do?
This concludes this thread break...
Thank you.
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Vissy
Starting Member
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 12:59:20 PM
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I do apologise if my comments seemed like a personal attack on you Vain, they were not meant that way. I will also admit writing that at 2 am after a frustrating night at work, and I just happened to let my frustrations boil over a little.
I will also say that I neither stand totally with or agianst either the conservitives or the liberals, both sides have their major flaws and ideologies I disagree with, and yes if you wanted to use conservatives as shark bait, then please feel free, LOL.
To me all life is sacred, no life deserves to be aborted on a whim, in this day and age it is all too easy to escape the consequences of your actions by some means or another. In the case of falling pregnent it often seems that abortion is a "quick fix" to an "unwanted problem", and unfortunatly alot of liberals seem to approve of such an idea.
I personally question what message such idoilogy sends out, to me it seems to suggest that life is cheap and not worth saving, and that you can do what ever you want with life and not bother about the consequences.
That is just what it seems like to me, that is what interpretation I put on the things that a lot of liberals say.
At the same time, I do not agree with the death penealty, or fox hunting, or many of the other things that conservatives seem to hold dear, a lot of the time I feel that many conservatives need to get their heads out from their jacksies and see the real world.
In short, I feel liberals go too far, and conservatives don't go far enough.
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Faith is something all men share with one another, they may have faith in differant things but they still all have faith. |
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Abortion & Parent Notification
