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Christy
Abrahamic Forum Co-Moderator
138 Posts |
 Posted - August 23 2006 : 9:37:31 PM
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Got questions? Go ahead and ask away
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BlueRose
New Member
61 Posts |
Posted - August 25 2006 : 01:32:28 AM
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Why is it that God says that he loves all those who believe in him and yet most christians I have encountered think that some people( such as gays, agnostics and those that believe but don't go to church) are automaticaly going to hell?
A rose has it's beauty, but it also has it's thorns. |
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Christy
Abrahamic Forum Co-Moderator
138 Posts |
 Posted - August 25 2006 : 08:05:25 AM
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Hi BlueRose and thanks for being the first one to ask a question. You asked....
quote:
Why is it that God says that he loves all those who believe in him and yet most christians I have encountered think that some people( such as gays, agnostics and those that believe but don't go to church) are automaticaly going to hell?
I can only give my HO, God is love. We all sin the bible says so Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
That means all sin. Is being gay a sin or any of those things you mentioned ? Yes. But God is love as you stated and He loved us so much that He sent Jesus to die for our sins. Your sins, my sins He came that ALL might be saved.
I can not say why (you used "most" here I want to use a different word) "Some" Christians so easily pass judgment on another's sins, when they are without sin themselves. "Some" Think that other's sins are greater then their sins, but sin is sin and we all have it. Maybe it is to draw attention to another's sins so their own sin is not seen. I am not sure. I can only speculate.
I hope I answered that okay for you, if not and you have more questions, please feel free to ask.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." |
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Nisan
New Member
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - August 25 2006 : 2:56:07 PM
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| Are you saying that none will perish? Are there not those whose faith is genuine? What about the verses in the bible which state that those people will go not inherit the kingeom of God? |
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Christy
Abrahamic Forum Co-Moderator
138 Posts |
Posted - August 25 2006 : 3:25:33 PM
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quote:
Are you saying that none will perish? Are there not those whose faith is genuine? What about the verses in the bible which state that those people will go not inherit the kingeom of God?
Hi Nissan,
No I am saying that it is my belief that God is the judge not us, no matter how Christian one thinks he/she is
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"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - August 25 2006 : 10:06:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueRose
Why is it that God says that he loves all those who believe in him and yet most christians I have encountered think that some people( such as gays, agnostics and those that believe but don't go to church) are automaticaly going to hell?
A rose has it's beauty, but it also has it's thorns.
Just because one loves another, doesn't mean they accept their behavior. That goes for God too. One of the biggest Christian beliefs is that one can love the sinner, but not the sin. Thats where most Christian hold folks that are gay. They and God can still love the person, but not the act. In the same way that God and Christians can also love liars, adulterers, killers, etc. So hopefully that can clear up HOW God and Christians can say on one hand that the gay lifestyle is a sin yet still love the gay person.
Now the WHY is bit different. The WHY is because it is written in the Bible. Most Christian accept that the gay lifestyle is a sin and if one willfully follows that life style they will go to hell or something. Much like all the other people that willfully keep breaking the Word of God by all the other sins also.
Now the part that gets a bit gray is that some Christians believe that the parts of the Bible that say the Gay lifestyle is a sin is misinterpreted. And while anything is possible, it is left up to the believer as to what interpretation they feel is correct. The majority of the Christians believe it is a sin and while I am not a theologin, IMHO it is rather clear in the passages I read and in the context that it appears to have been written in. And this goes for all the sins, the only reason I picked on this one is because you listed it and it is probably one of the most controversial along with abortion.
As a Christian, one truly has to accept that the Bible is the Word of God. As a human, I accept that even though I believe it is the Word of God, I accept that my human mind may not understand what God has said to us. But I avoid making weak excuses for why I may think something in the Bible is wrong.(or at least understood wrong and practiced wrong) It is up to us to follow what the Bible says and not for us to rewrite what we think it should say. That is a very difficult thing for us to do, especially in this day and age.
By the way, did you know there are now only 8 planets in our solar system and not 9 as has been taught for 70 years? In mans world we constantly make errors and when it fits us we can change definitions to attain the goal we are going for. In God's Word it is never changing, but many are always trying to make it fit in our present state.
I hope that was clear. It seemed like it was as I was writing it. LOL
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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Nisan
New Member
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - August 26 2006 : 12:01:47 PM
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| Why do verses 1 Corinthians 6:8-10 and Galatians 5:20-21 dispute this???????? |
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Christy
Abrahamic Forum Co-Moderator
138 Posts |
Posted - August 26 2006 : 12:07:58 PM
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1 Corinthians 6:8-10
8. Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren. 9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:20-21
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
What is it desputing?
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"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." |
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BlueRose
New Member
61 Posts |
Posted - August 28 2006 : 04:37:57 AM
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You say the Bible is Gods words but it was writen in the hands of men. It is in human nature to change and challenge things to suite them. So how are we to know what is real? It was said that God never changes. Is that God himself or his words? Why was he so vengeful in the beginning to those who did not believe and then turned around and left us alone? Change is inevitible, it is humanity. Since God created us in his image, does this count for our way of thinking as well?
A rose has it's beauty, but it also has it's thorns. |
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Fullmetal_A
Starting Member
35 Posts |
Posted - August 28 2006 : 05:01:30 AM
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First of all the Bible WAS written by man. King James had the bible written and changed for himself. After all the years that its been around over half of the the bible cant be real. Besieds Jesus wanted the bible to be a guide NOT a set of rules written in stone. Its to help us on our way not to bar it. Those who take the bible to heart and think its words are set in stone I think are fools. Most good christians I know accept this. Gays are the same as us in all aspects they love they hate, just because they like the same sex doesnt mean they arent human. Besides that God meant us to worship him so why should I have to go to church to worship god? I can do it just fine at home. "The kingdom of god is all around you split a piece of would and I am there,lift a stone and you will find me. If you ask me christians are too ready to say that something they dont understand is a sin.
so they themselve sin everyday. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I think god meant us to live our lives to the fullest and be happy as long as we believe in him he will be there.
"Mathew 16:26- For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"
Some have knowledge, others believe in faith. |
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justamom
Starting Member
9 Posts |
Posted - August 28 2006 : 07:02:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fullmetal_A
First of all the Bible WAS written by man. King James had the bible written and changed for himself.
King James actually had very little to do with the translation.
*From Wikipedia
The King James Version of the Bible, first published in 1611, has had a profound impact on English literature. The works of famous authors such as John Bunyan, John Milton, Herman Melville, John Dryden, and William Wordsworth are replete with inspiration derived from the King James Version.
The New Testament of the King James Version was translated from the Received Text (Textus Receptus), called so because most extant texts of the time were in agreement with it. The Old Testament of the King James Version is translated from the Masoretic Hebrew Text.
Modern English Bibles such as the New American Standard Bible and the English Standard Version derive their authority from a completely different set of New Testament manuscripts (earlier Egyptian Minority Texts as opposed to the later Byzantine Majority Texts).
Although it is often referred to as the King James Version, the only active part King James took in the translation was lifting the criminal (death) penalty attached to its translation and setting very reasonable guidelines for the translation process (such as prohibiting partisan scholarship and footnotes.)
The name Authorized Version was particularly used in the United Kingdom, where the name King James Version was known only as "what the Americans call it" until the AV's recent decline in popularity in its homeland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version_of_the_Bible
quote:
Those who take the bible to heart and think its words are set in stone I think are fools. Most good christians I know accept this.
I know most of the posters in this part of the forum and you may be pleasantly surprised that they will change your opinion about this!
quote:
Besides that God meant us to worship him so why should I have to go to church to worship god? I can do it just fine at home. "The kingdom of god is all around you split a piece of would and I am there,lift a stone and you will find me.
You are correct.
Mt 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
"Church" or worship can be anywhere. It can be in your car, it can be in your tree house in the backyard.
The Lord had many *reasons* for church as you called it, one reason is when we assemble ourselves with others, we not only hold each other responsible, accountable, and have a "witness," but we also come together to learn with each other. Jesus gathered alot of people together in His travels to teach and to pray with people. He commanded Peter to build His church on the very foundations and principles that Jesus had showed him while Peter was with Him.
Mt 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
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If you ask me christians are too ready to say that something they dont understand is a sin.
I think being a Christian makes me no "smarter" than any other average Joe. If I don't understand something, I try and look it up, read about it or I ask someone with authority that I respect. I don't necessarily equate it with being "a sin". I know that the Bible lists some specific sins, so if it's in there and I've done it, I have sinned.
quote:
so they themselve sin everyday. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I think god meant us to live our lives to the fullest and be happy as long as we believe in him he will be there.
Yes, guilty as charged. I am a sinner.
I sin every day, and will continue to do so.
But I try not to. I try to do what is right.
I think you've just given God your definition of Him, not necessarily defining who He really is.
Can you clearly define God?
What about when He does something not in your definition?
OBTW,
I'm just a mom.
I was invited over here by Teryl. 
Good to see everyone here! :WAVES:
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Ge 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. |
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