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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - December 10 2006 : 11:32:37 PM
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LOL! Gotcha. See, I myself use the k. Habit I guess. As for the whole "secret society" I happen to give a bit more credit to it. I don't think everyone, nor the average person should have access to magic(k).  We control who can and cannot have a gun. We control who can and cannot drive. Why should we give everyone access to something that has a more dangerous potential than either?
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - December 11 2006 : 04:46:39 AM
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MG: Magick has a built-in failsafe device. It requires imagination.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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ChainLightning
New Member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - December 11 2006 : 05:25:41 AM
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I try not to knock it too much. Kind of like dealing with Wiccans - we do alot of the same things, have alot of the same beliefs, it's just that I don't do well following along with *the crowd*.
I guess I may have skipped a bit, in my posit. I know there's more than just ceremonial, traditional and chaos magic practioners that just plain prefer to use the K. I mean, it can't really be called a *modern* contrivance, since it's use has been around for more years than I have. On occasion, I ruffle feathers with some of my generalizing - and the debate over spelling it *magic* or *magick* is one of those occasions.
Like I said, *it strikes me as pretentious*, but that doesn't mean it IS pretentious. (more semantics LOL)
And MG, I think the phrase you're looking for is *toddlers with handguns*. Spellcraft and Magic (or Magick) are not slumber party games.
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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - December 12 2006 : 10:03:42 AM
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Precisely Chain.  Magick is something to be learned, something to be taught by an actual teacher. Not just reading in a book, and then going off on one's own and attempting it.
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - December 12 2006 : 3:33:14 PM
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I think magic is different for every single person who encounters it. Some people may benefit greatly from having a teacher, others may work better on a solitary path. What I don't think, however, is that you should say "This is the way it should be done." What works for you may not work for others.
But that's just me. And I like intruding on conversations.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - December 13 2006 : 12:29:20 PM
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But by saying "y'know. however works best for you", you're only allowing that person to do it incorrectly. Mess up, or generally screw up in a big and bad way. We don't hand people guns and say "hey. however works best for you" because we know someone will just be stupid enough to shoot themselves with it. That's why teaching is important. It's teaching that gives direction and helps them upon a path. But to say that an uneducated mind who just sort of stumbles through it all is just as equal as an educated mind is absurd.
Just my thoughts on it.
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ChainLightning
New Member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - December 13 2006 : 9:14:34 PM
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I kind of disagree with you, there MG. I think it's the learning that's important, not the teaching.
And about *however works best for you*? You and I, and probably Vain, too, all practice our faith differently. And as such we use magic(k) differently, too. I can't say that yours is incorrect, because it's different than mine. It's just different. Just like I can't say, *if you spell magic with a K you're fluff bunny.* It's simply not true. In terms of the believers, the practitioners, themselves, it really is *to each their own* or *however works best for you*.
I'll give you a *for instance*. To celebrate one of the more common *holidays*, the upcoming solstice, some people go all out on their rituals; singing, dancing, chanting, lots of ritual garb. Others may go just so far as to light a candle and still others pass the day without so much as a moment's silence, no notice at all. Which ritual is correct?
Certainly the answer can't be judged by which ones use a K. Nor can they be deemed incorrect because of how different they are from my (or your) own.
I rather think that's the idea Vain had in mind when he posted *whatever works for you*. Not the lack of education/learning but the separation of paths.
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - December 14 2006 : 12:32:33 AM
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Thank you, Chain. You put your finger on it.
Someone once said: "Some things can't be taught. They must be learned." And that's true. Suppose you've lived your life underground: I can tell you the sky is blue, and you can believe me, but for you the reality of the sky BEING blue may not sink in until you see it yourself. Yes, knowing about the blue sky beforehand may prepare you for it, but if you didn't know, and went aboveground on your own, and found it, is that really so bad?
What I'm saying is, each person is as different as the stars in the sky. For one person, teaching may be the best and most useful thing. For others, a teacher may be neutral, or even damaging to their development. Nobody knows how we learn, or what makes us take interest in something, or understand it, or comprehend it. Given that vast unknown, it seems that teaching (or leaving alone) has to be tailored to the individual.
We're strange creatures, we are.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - December 15 2006 : 12:07:05 AM
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I still think the guiding hand of a teacher is necessary. I'm sorry, that's just how I was brought up in the faith. Learning is Fundamental, and Teaching is Sacred. To guide and mold the clay, to give it form and function. Not to let the clay decide what it wants to be on it's own, for there is no purpose, no grand design in that. We must take the initiative, the responsibility of molding the clay, otherwise all we will be left with will be lumps. Individual? Yes. But functional and useful? No.
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - December 15 2006 : 02:48:00 AM
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I would rather be myself and useless than 'functional and useful' and forced into a mold I don't fit. I don't want to be part of anyone's grand design. I just want to be myself. Freedom or death. No...well, no middle ground, to be frankly honest. I don't want to be anyone's lump of clay.
I don't think we as a species are going to make it unless we can all act as individuals and take complete responsibility for our actions. I think that makes me an anarchist. Oh well.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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the K
