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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
 Posted - November 08 2006 : 2:23:45 PM
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Predictions on what will arise from the Democratic house?
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2006 : 2:36:46 PM
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I'm afraid there will be much gridlock. Only this time when the Reps use the filibuster, the Dems will use the Constitutional(nuclear as the Dems called it) option to end the ability of the minority party to use the filibuster. I think we will start getting a flood of investigations trying to show a bad light on the Reps. I think we will get a flood of feel good entitlement programs that will take more taxes or cuts in our defense budget to occomplish.
If the radical Muslims and leftist leaders are smart and patient(which in many ways they have proven)they will back off for two years to lull us into a false sense of security and that we are safe as long as we keep Dems in power. All the while in the background they will be plotting for even a bigger 911 attack once the Dems have degraded our military again.
In America the Christians will be attacked even more, the PC police will do their best to purge and Christianity out of our society thinking that their secular beliefs will get along with the Muslims and non-Christians allies. But again, it will be a temporary feel good time and the beginning of the end of our security in America.
Not a very positive view, but it is my view and not a bashing of liberals or Dems. Its not that they are really trying to take us down that road, and I know most of them believe they are doing the right thing. But in many of the most important issues and policies, they aren't. In the end they will have that deer in the headlights look as their new montra will change from, "its all their fault" to "we didn't know".
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2006 : 11:24:05 PM
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Sounds like a slippery slope argument. I really don't see Democrats in positions of power as the end of life as we know it.
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2006 : 11:58:39 PM
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It would be nice to see the removal of acts such as the Military Commissions Act (which, for those of you who missed it, allows the president to suspend habeus corpus for ANYONE at ANY time, meaning anyone can be jailed and tortured without trial indefinitely), as well as the unconstitutional powers snuck into place with the Patriot Act and its descendants.
I would sleep slightly easier knowing that measures aren't in place for someone to build a new Gestapo somewhere down the line.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 11:14:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by middleground
Sounds like a slippery slope argument. I really don't see Democrats in positions of power as the end of life as we know it.
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No, its not an end of the world scenerio, but for folks that like freedom, you'll find that they will diminish more under their watch. The Reps may not like to give criminals freedom and it scares folks that it will bleed over to them. Dems like to give criminals freedom and the criminals take care of us. With all the checks and balances that we have in our country, I would be more afraid of criminals than cops.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 11:23:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Vainamoinen
It would be nice to see the removal of acts such as the Military Commissions Act (which, for those of you who missed it, allows the president to suspend habeus corpus for ANYONE at ANY time, meaning anyone can be jailed and tortured without trial indefinitely), as well as the unconstitutional powers snuck into place with the Patriot Act and its descendants.
I would sleep slightly easier knowing that measures aren't in place for someone to build a new Gestapo somewhere down the line.
...dabbling all the way down...
For those that missed it, it does NOT allow for Anyone at anytime to be jailed and tortured. But if you have no problem with terrorists that have no love of life to be making bombs in the house next to yours with no fear of our liberal laws, then you will surely get your wish under the Dems. While we take years to take a person to trial(after he has already blown up people and property) his friends will be getting set for the next one without any worries.
The Reps believe in deturing criminal and terrorist actions, the Dems want justice after the action. I guess the Dems got their wish and now we just have to wait until the next 911. Since we will now be unable to listen in on possible terrorist plans being relayed from outside our country to their cells within. And since now we will only be able to ask them their name and cut them loose after getting a promise from them they won't leave the country. Enjoy.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 2:22:54 PM
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American Civil Liberties Union Executive Director Anthony D. Romero summarized criticism of the Act:
"The president can now, with the approval of Congress, indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions." [17]
Yale University professor of law Bruce Ackerman agrees that the Act:
"authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights".[19]
A number of legal scholars and Congressional members - including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-PA) - have said that the habeas provision of the Act violates a clause of the Constitution that says the right to challenge detention "shall not be suspended" except in cases of "rebellion or invasion."[21] The law has also been criticized for allegedly giving a retroactive, nine-year immunity to U.S. officials who authorized, ordered, or committed potential acts of abuse on detainees.[22]
We are violating international law! We are violating the provisions of our own constitution! Jailing people indefinitely without right of trial is what the BAD people did, if you'll recall. You know, the fascists? There might not be a Gestapo coming to our doors now, and if there's a benevolent force in the Universe, there won't be. But all it would take is for one crooked and molevolent leader- of ANY party, JADE- and all the provisions are in place to build a fascist state.
Those who would give up their freedom for security deserve neither.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 3:17:53 PM
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quote:
But all it would take is for one crooked and molevolent leader- of ANY party, JADE- and all the provisions are in place to build a fascist state.
Those who would give up their freedom for security deserve neither.
Now with the Dems in power, you probably have a point.
But during Bush's stand against folks wanting to kill us, how many common citizens did you see this happen to. There were checks and balances even within the changes that would protect anyone from torture etc.
But if you want to believe folks like the ACLU then have at it. And when those folks that laugh at our court system light off that bomb under you or your loved ones, then come back(oh wait, you won't be around to complain now will you) and tell me how bad it would be to put a fanatic away until he was no longer a threat to the common people.
Sorry I don't have much compassion for murderers and evil people. They are a true and present danger. The men in black coats are only a paranoid mindset that keep folks from thinking logically.
But time will tell and someday the liberals will find out that they are hated by Muslims even more than they hate Christians. All while the liberals keep trying to talk love and compassion to fanatic nuts.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 3:28:04 PM
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Ah yes, the old argument: Giving them complete power is just dandy, 'cause they're only taking away the BAD people, right?
Maybe. At the moment.
If there's anything history has taught us, it's that human beings- of ALL kinds- really really dig on killing, torturing, imprisoning, and oppressing their neighbors. Your blind faith in the righteousness of the government is touching, but it's made up of human beings. And human beings are flawed. All of us. The less people who can make me disappear forever without check or restriction, the better. This is the United States of America, not Stalin's Russia!
And JADE: I said ANY party. ANY. And your response was: 'Democrats'. You're a political racist. You make me sick.
...dabbling all the way down... |
Edited by - Vainamoinen on November 09 2006 3:28:54 PM |
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JADE
Junior Member
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 4:14:11 PM
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Vainamoinen
Ah yes, the old argument: Giving them complete power is just dandy, 'cause they're only taking away the BAD people, right?
Maybe. At the moment.
No body is saying give them "complete" power. That will never happen.
quote:
If there's anything history has taught us, it's that human beings- of ALL kinds- really really dig on killing, torturing, imprisoning, and oppressing their neighbors. Your blind faith in the righteousness of the government is touching, but it's made up of human beings. And human beings are flawed. All of us. The less people who can make me disappear forever without check or restriction, the better. This is the United States of America, not Stalin's Russia!
It has also taught us that there are some very good people in the world also. America happens to be one of those groups of folks. Not perfect and yes, flawed, But I don't know of any other country that tries so hard to help others. We may not do so well sometimes, but other than instances of evil individuals that have done bad things, America has not done evil things.
[quote]And JADE: I said ANY party. ANY. And your response was: 'Democrats'. You're a political racist. You make me sick.
Dems aren't a race, but they as a block, concern me more than Reps as a block. Now your comment that I make you sick is a rather emotional personal attack and you should refrain from that. You don't make me sick and I only wish to discuss issues with you. I disagree with some of your beliefs and comments, but it is no reason for me to feel sick over it, just concerned.
But when I was your age I was probably just as emotional and prone to outbursts of emotion over logic, so I won't let it bother me.
I wish you would just accept that others have views unlike yours and that OK. That my friend is also a freedom, and one they don't enjoy in many other countries.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 4:22:03 PM
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I have no problem with views unlike my own. But I stand by my statement. I said 'Anyone', your response was (as it always is) 'Democrats'. But you chide me for using emotion over logic?
...dabbling all the way down... |
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And the Democrats have it!
