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Quilty
Starting Member
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - November 01 2006 : 1:41:10 PM
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We each have our different ways of doing things. IMHO, every religion is based on just two principles:
1) Belief in something/Someone Greater than Oneself;
2) Y'all play nice.
The rest is just details.
What I want to know is, what drew you to the Path you chose?
~q.
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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 1:47:21 PM
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Hmm...what drew me to Ceremonial Magick?
It's order. It's intense desire to know and unravel the unknown.
It's ritualization. Everything had a place and purpose. It's need for secrecy. The importance of it's work, and the Great Work.
I'm a big fan of organization, and "having all the ducks in a row". And when it comes to Paganism and Organization, it seems like oil and water. But Ceremonial Magick makes it work, and thus I love it doubly so.
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Quilty
Starting Member
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 2:08:16 PM
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No fair asking without sharing, so here goes...
I was in first grade in Catholic school, and they taught us "God is love." (How warm and fuzzy! That's great!!!) Then they said that 3 outta 4 of my grandparents would burn in hell for being at the wrong address on Sundays. (Say WHAT? Those wonderful people??? Well, there is that ONE grandmother, but still....) And God is one but God is three but God is one but God is three... (I still can't do math.)
Around Thanksgiving, we were taught about <giggling behind their hands> the poor heathen Indians who thought EVERYTHING was God, trees, rocks, sun and moon... (But that's the first thing you've said YET that made any sense!)
On May Day, we had a whole day to honor The Virgin Mary. (Why only ONE day??) It was the most magical thing I had ever seen, everyone adorned in flowers, laying flowers at her feet, around her neck, honoring her for being the Mother of God. (Which I took to mean also of all of us, since we are all children of God, right?) And from then on, I made altars to Mary in my bedroom, with fresh plants and flowers replaced regularly.
Then came The Biggest (Gotta be an Exaggeration, because nuns aren't allowed to lie) of all. First Communion. We would be receiving the ACTUAL Body of Christ for the first time. (Eewwww. Maybe the LAST time, too!) They let us taste unsanctified wafers, for the experience, I guess. Stuck to the roof of my mouth. Tasteless. NO TOUCHING THE HOST, YOUNG LADIES! But they weren't the ACTUAL Body of Christ. The Big Day came, I waited in line, scrunched up my face in disgust, closed my eyes and stuck out my tongue. When it wasn't raw meat, I KNEW the whole thing had been An Exaggeration of Highest Order.
I grew up in Lafayette,LA, where Catholicism was like its own race. The mailman, the garbage man, the cafeteria ladies, they all were Catholic; we saw them at church most Sundays. So, when I got a little older and could read better, and had access to books about Those Other Religions, I began to study them with a fervor. We moved to Arkansas when I was 10, and I met my first Protestants. (My little brother - 5 at the time - wanted to know where the Publics went to church.) I asked everyone I met to tell me about their church. What did they believe? What did it mean? I tried all the Protestant churches I could stand when I was old enough to be on my own. Nothing seem to answer the questions I asked Mary every night....
In high school, we moved back to Louisiana, and I was totally immersed in that culture again. I remember BEGGING God, on my knees, in tears, to PLEASE PLEASE let me believe what everyone else did! I was terrified that someone would find out I didn't believe the words I was mouthing, and that I would be struck by lightning or outcast, or worse. It was the guiltiest secret I ever kept.
Fast forward 20 years (of trying to ignore religion entirely): And by the grace of the internet, the very first night we signed on to AOL, we found a chat room called "Pagan Tea House." They were talking about all the stuff I had always believed and never could name! I HAD FOUND THE HOME I GREW UP BELIEVING DIDN'T EXIST! The more diversity I found in the Pagans I knew, the happier I got and the deeper I studied, till I found the flavor that suited me best. I realized I believed a combination of several traditions, Asatru in the lead. I found way more hope in the "The 12 Traits to Nourish" than <voice of Charleton Heston> THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. This was a way to teach my children to live, without twisting their souls into pretzels.
One of our ex-neighbors had a life-size crucifix on their living room wall, mounted above the tv. <shudder> In living color: bleeding from the nails, the thorns, the cut in chest, the whole gory picture. Our 6 yr old daughter was visiting theirs and was horrified and sickened by the sight, and asked what in the WORLD that thing was. Her little friend told her since she hadn't been saved, she was a sinner and was going to hell. She came home in tears, begging me to explain what a sin was, and why hell was so bad, and where it was, and when did she have to go. It was a very proud moment in my parenting.
When it came time that we felt the children needed some sort of organized religious training, we discovered the Unitarian Church. It was a turning point in my spirituality, too. I found the spiritual community I had begged God for all those years ago. Thinking, intelligent, questioning, non-sheep, REAL people! I have been very happy with their Religious Education program, philosophies, activities... It is exactly the way I wish I could have been raised! (And you can't beat going to a church where the minister admits to being a former atheist! It's ONLY about the spirituality, and ways to be the best PEOPLE we can be!)
:::exhale::: WHEW. Sometimes my journey is a difficult story to tell. I left out a lot about the rigidity of being raised Catholic, ESPECIALLY in heathen Arkansas; my parents' own struggles with their faith that were visited upon all of us; their reaction to my sister becoming an atheist and a hippie and losing her virginity in the same semester....But you get the idea.
~q. |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 2:30:54 PM
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Wow, that's quite a tale, Quilty.
As for me...in a sense, I'm not religious. I have a point of view, but not a religion. Faith is something I seek to have in people, but not in any intelligence greater than our own. It seems likely to me that whatever lies on the next level of perception above us is so UNLIKE us that communication between the two levels is difficult if possible.
Which would explain a lot about the use of ceremony, ritual, meditation, and altered states.
I'm a practitioner of chaos magick, which sounds exciting in a kind of Saturday morning cartoon sort of way, but is really the pragmatist of the magical world. I like the idea of paradigms. I'm the opposite of Middleground (meaning CoR) in a way: I like things in motion, I like things shifting and changing and constantly evolving. I like places between places. Reality is subjective, mysterious, ever-changing, and and often nonsensical.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
Reality is subjective, therefore there is NO single 'true' experience, observation, or event. Therefore any method, perspective, or magical practice is flung wide open, to be used as suits the paradigm you find yourself in, and changed- as you change yourself- at will and at need.
Wow, this was supposed to be about how I came here, wasn't it? I think I'd better take off my Professor glasses and get off my soapbox...
...dabbling all the way down... |
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middleground
Middle Ground Administrator
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 2:48:22 PM
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quote:
Reality is subjective, mysterious, ever-changing, and and often nonsensical.
Exactly! Which is why CM seeks to create the objective, unravel the mysterious, predict the ever-changing, and make sense of the nonsensical.
An ordered world is a good world. When you know what will happen ahead of time, you can prepare. Preparation is key to success and survival. Afterall, an old saying goes "Victory favors neither the righteous, nor the wicked. It favors the prepared."
Order does not always equate to stagnation. Order can allot for change, but change on a schedule. Not sudden, uncontrollable, unyielding change.
Just my $.02
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 01 2006 : 5:21:52 PM
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Ah, but chaos does not mean lack of preparation. It means flexibility, openness, turn-on-a-dime mechanics. "I am a leaf on the wind." If something breaks out of your the ordered universe (as it will, sooner or later), all fall down.
I can build my house of stone and metal, build it strong and sturdy, build it to withstand anything and to last a thousand years, but the only thing that makes it different from a prison is my ability to leave.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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Christy
Abrahamic Forum Co-Moderator
138 Posts |
Posted - November 02 2006 : 08:39:51 AM
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Wow, Quilty....
I had a smiler experience when I was young growing up in a Catholic childrens home. I grew up in a Pagan home. When we were placed in the childrens home that was the first I ever heard of Jesus or God, but being it was a Catholic home I heard more about Mary then anyone. My experience was with holy water. Every night we went to pray and was told to make a cross on our body with holy water. I asked what holy water was and when I was told I was so excited, heck I bathed in the stuff every time we went to pray.
One night when it came my turn to enter, the holy water was empty. I was shocked and started to cry, one of the nuns grabbed the little dish and ran down to the water fountain and filled it, From that moment on I never touched the holy water and got in big trouble for that everyday.
Then I started asking questions, like if God is all you say He is why don't we just pray to Him and not Mary? It was not until many years later that I became a Christian, I choose to seek God on my own and guess what ? I did not need the holy water nor Mary.
Unlike most Christians, I choose to keep myself in line and not others.... I am a firm believer in faith and the lack there of, I have never felt more superior then none believers just because of what I believe, I have learned being a Christian is most humbling and one of the hardest things to do, after all it cost Jesus His life.
I believe that God is God and if He chooses to show Himself to someone He has all power to do so. He sure don't need me to mess it up with what human perspective, if you get my drift.
I love rotten sinners after all I am one myself. I do not think less of anyone who believes in other Gods, all I can do is say "that is not how I believe." Does that make them going to hell? That is not my call.
I guess I have a bigger problem with Christians that think they are better or that go around saying "God loves you and your going to hell." I did not come to Christ, He found me in the mire and helped my unbelief.
Sorry if I am out of line for posting in this part of the forum, I just felt the need to share.
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"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
http://angel2drew.forumco.com |
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Vainamoinen
Paganism Forum Moderator
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - November 02 2006 : 09:34:15 AM
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Christy,
You've displayed more understanding and open-mindedness than most people in ANY religion tend to show. If that's out of line, it's out of line in all the right ways.
This place is all about bringing different viewpoints together, after all. I've got no problem with what you think, and you've got no problem with what I think. And that's a big step right there.
...dabbling all the way down... |
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