| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| middleground |
Posted - November 08 2006 : 2:23:45 PM
Predictions on what will arise from the Democratic house?
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| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JADE |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 6:42:06 PM
You may be able to accurately say you are offended, but as far as to say I am offensive is not accurate since it is only your perception.
I saw and understood what you said, I only elaborated that it is my opinion that with Dems in power, you might be right. You may disagree, You may even be right, but You can not dictate to me what my beliefs are. That would only strengthen my case that Dems/Libs(which I am assumeing you are since you defend them so much) are more dangerous than Reps. I am not going to demand you think as I do, I actually believe it is your right and freedom to think in anyway you wish. As long as you don't force me to believe as you do. While it saddens me that you think as you do in the political arena, its your right and I served and fought for your right to believe what you want.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
| Vainamoinen |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 6:26:15 PM
JADE, you're not even talking about what I took issue with. For your edification, I will quote again:
"But all it would take is for one crooked and molevolent leader- of ANY party, JADE- and all the provisions are in place to build a fascist state."
Your response:
"Now with the Dems in power, you probably have a point."
So that whole big paragraph you just posted has nothing to do with what I was talking about, and you're still being offensive.
...dabbling all the way down... |
| JADE |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 5:03:40 PM
Vain, do you actually read the demographics of the people that are for and against issues? I could just keep using the sterile and generic term "Anyone", but it doesn't show the light on the ones that are in the majority on that issue. Sure there are proabortion Reps(arnold is one) but can you at least agree that the majority of folks that vote for abortion are Dems and that the majority of Dems are liberal? I don't see why you get so excited when I state the obvious and factual.
If Dems did not vote, do you think we would have abortion or Gay marriages? Now if you think we would and can back it up, then I'll eat my words that Dems are the major problem on those issues.(of course what I see as a problem you may not, but at least you can agree to my premise)
That being said, I know there are some Reps that would have voted for it, but they are a minority and without the Dem block these things would never pass.
So my usage of the words Lib, Dems, Reps, Cons, etc. are just generalizations of blocks of voters that can be backed up with stats. As far as what YOU or I think personally is right or wrong is irrelevant, in a voting democracy most things are decided by the majority vote.
If I was to say that 9 out of 10 blacks vote Dem most of the time, that does not make me a racist, I am only stating a statistical fact. Don't get excited about stats or generalities, they are just a part of pointing out issues.
I hope that if we ever discuss rocks that if I say hard rocks(knowing that most rocks are hard) that you aren't going to get offended with my generalization of the majority of rocks. LOL
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
| Vainamoinen |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 4:22:03 PM
I have no problem with views unlike my own. But I stand by my statement. I said 'Anyone', your response was (as it always is) 'Democrats'. But you chide me for using emotion over logic?
...dabbling all the way down... |
| JADE |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 4:14:11 PM
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Vainamoinen
Ah yes, the old argument: Giving them complete power is just dandy, 'cause they're only taking away the BAD people, right?
Maybe. At the moment.
No body is saying give them "complete" power. That will never happen.
quote:
If there's anything history has taught us, it's that human beings- of ALL kinds- really really dig on killing, torturing, imprisoning, and oppressing their neighbors. Your blind faith in the righteousness of the government is touching, but it's made up of human beings. And human beings are flawed. All of us. The less people who can make me disappear forever without check or restriction, the better. This is the United States of America, not Stalin's Russia!
It has also taught us that there are some very good people in the world also. America happens to be one of those groups of folks. Not perfect and yes, flawed, But I don't know of any other country that tries so hard to help others. We may not do so well sometimes, but other than instances of evil individuals that have done bad things, America has not done evil things.
[quote]And JADE: I said ANY party. ANY. And your response was: 'Democrats'. You're a political racist. You make me sick.
Dems aren't a race, but they as a block, concern me more than Reps as a block. Now your comment that I make you sick is a rather emotional personal attack and you should refrain from that. You don't make me sick and I only wish to discuss issues with you. I disagree with some of your beliefs and comments, but it is no reason for me to feel sick over it, just concerned.
But when I was your age I was probably just as emotional and prone to outbursts of emotion over logic, so I won't let it bother me.
I wish you would just accept that others have views unlike yours and that OK. That my friend is also a freedom, and one they don't enjoy in many other countries.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
| Vainamoinen |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 3:28:04 PM
Ah yes, the old argument: Giving them complete power is just dandy, 'cause they're only taking away the BAD people, right?
Maybe. At the moment.
If there's anything history has taught us, it's that human beings- of ALL kinds- really really dig on killing, torturing, imprisoning, and oppressing their neighbors. Your blind faith in the righteousness of the government is touching, but it's made up of human beings. And human beings are flawed. All of us. The less people who can make me disappear forever without check or restriction, the better. This is the United States of America, not Stalin's Russia!
And JADE: I said ANY party. ANY. And your response was: 'Democrats'. You're a political racist. You make me sick.
...dabbling all the way down... |
| JADE |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 3:17:53 PM
quote:
But all it would take is for one crooked and molevolent leader- of ANY party, JADE- and all the provisions are in place to build a fascist state.
Those who would give up their freedom for security deserve neither.
Now with the Dems in power, you probably have a point.
But during Bush's stand against folks wanting to kill us, how many common citizens did you see this happen to. There were checks and balances even within the changes that would protect anyone from torture etc.
But if you want to believe folks like the ACLU then have at it. And when those folks that laugh at our court system light off that bomb under you or your loved ones, then come back(oh wait, you won't be around to complain now will you) and tell me how bad it would be to put a fanatic away until he was no longer a threat to the common people.
Sorry I don't have much compassion for murderers and evil people. They are a true and present danger. The men in black coats are only a paranoid mindset that keep folks from thinking logically.
But time will tell and someday the liberals will find out that they are hated by Muslims even more than they hate Christians. All while the liberals keep trying to talk love and compassion to fanatic nuts.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
| Vainamoinen |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 2:22:54 PM
American Civil Liberties Union Executive Director Anthony D. Romero summarized criticism of the Act:
"The president can now, with the approval of Congress, indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions." [17]
Yale University professor of law Bruce Ackerman agrees that the Act:
"authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights".[19]
A number of legal scholars and Congressional members - including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-PA) - have said that the habeas provision of the Act violates a clause of the Constitution that says the right to challenge detention "shall not be suspended" except in cases of "rebellion or invasion."[21] The law has also been criticized for allegedly giving a retroactive, nine-year immunity to U.S. officials who authorized, ordered, or committed potential acts of abuse on detainees.[22]
We are violating international law! We are violating the provisions of our own constitution! Jailing people indefinitely without right of trial is what the BAD people did, if you'll recall. You know, the fascists? There might not be a Gestapo coming to our doors now, and if there's a benevolent force in the Universe, there won't be. But all it would take is for one crooked and molevolent leader- of ANY party, JADE- and all the provisions are in place to build a fascist state.
Those who would give up their freedom for security deserve neither.
...dabbling all the way down... |
| JADE |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 11:23:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Vainamoinen
It would be nice to see the removal of acts such as the Military Commissions Act (which, for those of you who missed it, allows the president to suspend habeus corpus for ANYONE at ANY time, meaning anyone can be jailed and tortured without trial indefinitely), as well as the unconstitutional powers snuck into place with the Patriot Act and its descendants.
I would sleep slightly easier knowing that measures aren't in place for someone to build a new Gestapo somewhere down the line.
...dabbling all the way down...
For those that missed it, it does NOT allow for Anyone at anytime to be jailed and tortured. But if you have no problem with terrorists that have no love of life to be making bombs in the house next to yours with no fear of our liberal laws, then you will surely get your wish under the Dems. While we take years to take a person to trial(after he has already blown up people and property) his friends will be getting set for the next one without any worries.
The Reps believe in deturing criminal and terrorist actions, the Dems want justice after the action. I guess the Dems got their wish and now we just have to wait until the next 911. Since we will now be unable to listen in on possible terrorist plans being relayed from outside our country to their cells within. And since now we will only be able to ask them their name and cut them loose after getting a promise from them they won't leave the country. Enjoy.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
| JADE |
Posted - November 09 2006 : 11:14:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by middleground
Sounds like a slippery slope argument. I really don't see Democrats in positions of power as the end of life as we know it.
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No, its not an end of the world scenerio, but for folks that like freedom, you'll find that they will diminish more under their watch. The Reps may not like to give criminals freedom and it scares folks that it will bleed over to them. Dems like to give criminals freedom and the criminals take care of us. With all the checks and balances that we have in our country, I would be more afraid of criminals than cops.
God bless,
JADE
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I question...Therefore I think...I think...Therefore I am...I think? |
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