| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| radar |
Posted - January 16 2007 : 8:42:33 PM
Some where North of Las Vegas, There is an Area called 51, Top Secret, Cameras And lots of Military with M-16 rifles.
Our government denies it's there, But Everybody seen distant pictures of the felicity on TV. An people driving to it and getting M- 16's in there face.
What I'm typing now, you can believe or not,
There is a Theory, That the Stelth techology on some of are jets, May have come fron the UFO that crashed in Roswell N.M. in 1947.
To: fellow forum mates, What is your opinion on Area 51 |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Vainamoinen |
Posted - February 10 2007 : 6:11:12 PM
Er...all right...
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| radar |
Posted - February 09 2007 : 6:37:46 PM
Very Good, Answer.
I have been sick and my economic situation changed with in two weeks. So at this time the Administrator wants me to back off the Sci-Fi stuff a bit.
I'm going to try to think of something else to talk about.
From: Radar |
| Vainamoinen |
Posted - January 24 2007 : 4:01:40 PM
Well, I do agree that humans, as a rule, treat things with no empirical evidence as facts. Loch Ness, The Lost City of Atlantis, God, The Essential Goodness of Humanity, etc. It's what we do.
I do think there needs to be some room between MYTH and FACT, though. Given how little we actually know about our universe- and most of that is being disputed by quantum mechanics- I think we pretty much HAVE to have a folder in our minds marked 'Unknown'. F'rinstance, I strongly suspect the existence in some form of ghosts, demons (or something we would call demons), gods, magic, astral travel, and parallel universes, but I sure as hell couldn't prove any of that under laboratory conditions.
I'm all about skepticism. I just worry about objectivity. I don't want to credit anything without experience, but I don't want to DIScredit it without experience either. I'm not sure if I'm making a lot of sense.
The English language isn't very good at expressing unknown factors, I think.
Anyway...I guess I mean that just because something is legend doesn't make it untrue, and just because something is considered a Fact doesn't always mean it's true. It's just a question of sorting it out for ourselves.
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| ChainLightning |
Posted - January 24 2007 : 3:11:50 PM
But see, Vain, that's the problem, in a nutshell.
If people treated UFO's, Sasquatch and the Loch Ness Monster as a paranormal belief, there wouldn't BE a debate. Instead, people want to define those things as *normal* or REAL entities. We're not talking about debating the existence of Gaia. If I started talking about *The Great White Buffalo* and all it's mythical legends and mention that white buffalo are REAL. There IS proof. That doesn't mean the *legends* are real, just that occasionally a white buffalo IS born.
That's the difference between a myth and a fact. At this point, the Area 51 propoganda is all MYTH and treated as fact.
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| Vainamoinen |
Posted - January 24 2007 : 2:48:40 PM
"I won't debate the existence of Bigfoot or Nessie, either. There's no empirical evidence to ponder."
Eh...true, but we ARE on the Paranormal forums. If there were empirical evidence, it would become quantifiable, and then be just...well...Normal.
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| ChainLightning |
Posted - January 24 2007 : 12:30:00 PM
Well, there's also the bit that a friend of mine keeps going on about.
Our government isn't COMPETENT enough to keep ANYTHING under wraps for very long. Something that has THIS much interest in it? Impossible. With every single *secret* government activity (including nefarious involvements with other countries) is found out about, pretty quickly. And most people don't CARE about those stories.
But that's the nature of conspiracies. Overestimating the abilities/skills of the opponent.
On this subject, I usually waver from *I don't care* to *I don't know* and back again. Mostly, since it's a fruitless debate and I typically want SUBSTANCE. I won't debate the existence of Bigfoot or Nessie, either. There's no empirical evidence to ponder.
It's really just a variation on the Rorschach Test.
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| Vainamoinen |
Posted - January 24 2007 : 04:27:56 AM
...all of which goes to further muddle and confuse any claims made by anyone who actually DOES see or experience anything odd. I wonder how many people keep silent out of a desire not to be labeled as nutjobs?
Good response, Chain. I happen to agree with you. There's a lot goes on we don't know about, and there's probably *something* going on in the Void, but I doubt the United States Government is intimately involved.
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| ChainLightning |
Posted - January 24 2007 : 01:19:13 AM
Area 51. An antiquated reference to a map coordinate for military testing grounds. More properly known as Groom Lake, since the dry salt flat basin in which it lies IS the Groom Lake basin. It started out as a test facility for bombers and artillery pieces during WWII but after being abandoned after the war Lockheed took up the space for testing *cutting edge* aircraft that it was trying to develop (such as the U2), with the deliberate protection of the Air Force.
It's an interesting place. During the Cold War, the Soviets constantly tried to probe it's activities, since they felt, quite strongly, that the U.S. had acquired Soviet aircraft for study and training, as well as Lockheed's Skunk Works prototype testing, and took many satelite images of the remote airstrip. In fact, the first references to Area 51 being something other than a testing facility, most likely started with Soviet impetus.
As for Roswell? Since it was the Roswell Army Air Force that took control of a crash site in 1947 (some 75 miles from town), Roswell became the, now infamous, *center* of activity. Considering that Roswell was the site of quite a bit of the country's early rocketry work, not to mention the surrounding military testing grounds (again, for bombing and artillery), it's not surprising at all, that something *crashed*, around there, that lay people didn't recognize. (These were the same sort of people that panicked over Orson Welles' 1938 *War of The Worlds* broadcast)
Just a few short years after that, in 1952, the US Air force began the study known as Project Blue Book. Ostensibly because of the growing community of conspiracy theorists, but in any case, the study is generally viewed as a government cover-up, by many UFO enthusiasts and conspiracy buffs. The study ended in 1969, after collecting some 12,618 UFO reports and classifying only 701 of those as *unknown*.
What it comes down to is pretty much the same tactics used in certain debates about accuracy within the Bible - and using the Bible, itself, as evidence to prove that the Bible is accurate.
When someone says *I have no comment* that doesn't mean they are automatically lying about something, but that pretty much sums up the arguement in the debates surrounding Area 51 and Roswell.
Now... does that mean UFO's don't exist? No. It simply means that the debate about Area 51 is purely based on conjecture, theories and fallacies, on one side. The other side of the arguement just says, *Top Secret* - I can't tell you.
There is not enough data to support a conclusion, especially the conclusion posited by *wild guesses* about hidden facilities, secret bases and government cover-ups.
Unfortunately, any time someone finds that a door is locked, they automatically assume that something, or somebody, is hiding behind it. It's just locked to keep people out, no more, no less.
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| radar |
Posted - January 23 2007 : 9:07:10 PM
Good reply, But if that's all what they are doing, Then "THEY" would have no reason to keep buying land to keep spectators away.
"THEY" Have another name for the felicity, "GROOM LAKE".
When I put "THEY" in this context; It means, CIA, NSA or other U.S. GOV people who I assume don't smile.
Read about, Roswell or Project Blue Book.
Radar
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| Vainamoinen |
Posted - January 23 2007 : 05:12:56 AM
There are a lot of government-owned swathes of land out in the west and southwest. I'd suspect that most of them are concerned with cult, canny, and terrestrial things.
And if those things are, say, testing unexploded weapons of mass destruction, I'm very grateful the public can't get inside and muck about.
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